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[–]SingOfStorms 36 points37 points  (4 children)

I would argue that getting Daisy's statement would be an earlier instance, since she mentions that she had never told anyone else. I believe she also says she felt compelled to tell her story and help him by bringing the tapes against her will.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]uncomfortablyunknown[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for the tapes to be a result of Jon. I think it'd be fair to generalise Jon's compulsion to 'being encouraged to share knowledge' which I think means Jon could have at least partially nudged Barisa and Daisy towards sharing the tapes. I agree that something as direct as 'bring me tapes' seems a little outside of Jon's wheelhouse, especially that early on in the story.

    [–]Issendai 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I’d agree that that’s one of the earliest places where his power to compel statements shows up. It would be easier if they put static behind all the early instances, but noooo, they had to be subtle...

    [–]uncomfortablyunknown[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Yeah Daisy's statement is a very good call!

    [–]in-the-widening-gyreThe Stranger 21 points22 points  (5 children)

    I think it's soo soo subtle neither Jon nor us can really pinpoint it. There isn't one thing, it's just that he's slowly letting himself become the Archivist.

    Basira's statement in 43 is one where it seems like she probably wasn't intending to give him that much info, and probably also the fact that she was willing to get the tapes and send Daisy (as Daisy mentions in her statement). Melanie in 28 - Skintight might be an even subtler early example of this -- she comes in to give a statement, but she's pretty argumentative until she gets into statement mode.

    He's been taking on statement-givers' personas since Anglerfish, with a particularly exemplary performance in 14 - Piecemeal. He's also seemingly been able to come up with statement summaries out of thin air since about the beginning of the series too. Is that the eye exerting his power over him, or the stirrings of his own power (or are those two things functionally equivalent)?

    u/PotatoGolem's point about the nightmares is also a good one - we know Naomi is in the nightmare zoo, and I wonder how long it took Jon to figure out what was going on (versus like "it's not entirely unreasonable my terrifying job would give me particularly weird stress dreams").

    [–]in-the-widening-gyreThe Stranger 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    I was reading this amazing meta (which is about trauma, heads up): https://findingfeather.tumblr.com/post/616763211741626368/so-the-tma-season-4-wait-wait-theres-more-jon and it reminded me of another example -- in 39 when Martin and Jon are trapped (I think in Old Document Storage), Jon says this in his "Because I'm scared, Martin!" speech:

    Because when I record these statements it feels… it feels like I’m being watched. I… I lose myself a bit. And then when I come back, it’s like… like if I admit there may be any truth to it, whatever’s watching will… know somehow. The scepticism, feigning ignorance. It just felt safer.
    https://snarp.github.io/magnus_archives_transcripts/episode/039.html

    It's more him experiencing the eye's power than evidence of archivist powers but it's him talking about his experience of the Weird so I thought it was relevant?

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]in-the-widening-gyreThe Stranger 9 points10 points  (2 children)

      For a bunch of the early ones, I'd say you're right. The follow up seems like it's mostly done by the archival assistants, but he must assign it.

      In 147 Annabelle draws attention to how he knows the summaries when he reads a statement fresh -- obviously that's in season 4, but the implication seems to me to be that that's been a slow change, and like he didn't question when it started, but that doesn't push it to the beginning of the series.

      The first time he doesn't mention other people doing follow up is 7 - The Piper (because it's too old). He sounds like a little like he's reading that one fresh to me ("I feel like I recognize the name Joseph Rayner from somewhere, though for the life of me I couldn't say where ...") but nothing conclusive for sure.

      I was going to keep looking but I have no idea how I could tell :P. Martin doesn't give summaries. Melanie and Tim do in the beginning of S3 (86) and we hear them shuffling pages to do a bit of pre-reading. Their summaries are super basic, but that would be solved by Jon having just actually read them through like a reasonable person prepping to record something.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]in-the-widening-gyreThe Stranger 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        That could also be when it's [I'd agree, pretty darn] evident whether or not it's the first time it happened, thanks for tracking it down!

        (I love that statement but I always forget which one it is, because the British Transport Police officer going "Who do you love most in the world" thing is so haunting to me for some reason :S).

        [–]PotatoGolemThe Hunt 16 points17 points  (2 children)

        The dream stuff probably happened when he started taking statements from others, episode Alone. How long before he realized he was causing nightmares? After the second statement he took, Anatomy Class?

        It seems weird that Jonathan could recognize Gerard Keay based on the description in Lost in the Crowd. Maybe the fist instance of Knowing?

        [–]uncomfortablyunknown[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        Good call on the Gerard connection! For my purposes I'm going to lean towards that being an instance of Knowing but it's really hard to say conclusively.

        I've always been a little iffy on the technicalities of the nightmares. I don't think he would've realised the nightmares are him thing until he realised he wasn't entirely human anymore.

        [–]Issendai 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I think it was because “long black hair” is Gerry’s iconic descriptor. Not that there can’t be other guys with creepy knowledge and long black hair in the Magnusverse, but when you’re looking for patterns...

        [–]Jackof_shadowsBeholding 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        I mean, the earliest power is probably the state he goes into when recording statements.

        [–]unatd 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Is been established, and emphasized in ep 100, the presence of The Archivist subtly influences statements givers enough for their statements to be fairly cohesive and well told, rather than overwhelmingly rambly or full of tangents, so the story telling nature of the statements given in his presence / during his tenure as Head Archivist could arguably be another indication, with people commenting they gave more info than intended a development/increase in that aspect.

        [–]tea-with-jamThe Lonely 8 points9 points  (6 children)

        In MAG 67 Jon says he's been calling the as-yet-unnamed worshippers of the Desolation "The Cult of the Lightless Flame," which turned out to be what they called themselves. My first listen through I didn't really take note of it, but in hindsight...that would be a very melodramatic thing for Jon to just make up as a placeholder name for them. Maybe because he seemed so melodramatic anyway it didn't stand out...?

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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          [–]tea-with-jamThe Lonely 4 points5 points  (3 children)

          Ahh, you're right. The "lightless flame" part Diego does say, but, uhhh, Jon does come up with the "cult of" bit...Hahah, OK, less conclusively an example of "uncanny knowing" than "uncanny good guess" :P

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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            [–]tea-with-jamThe Lonely 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Oh man, I totally thought they used it for themselves. Now I'm gonna have to look through the transcripts again, I coulda sworn people besides Institute staff call them that...but maybe that's just because I'm so used to everyone here calling them that xD

            [–]Issendai 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            I just reached that part, and you’re right, it’s not an obvious name for them, and it’s not the kind of name you make up as a placeholder. Definite sign of Knowing.

            [–]what_the_ghostThe Eye 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            I suppose you could argue that he's displayed his manifesting Eye powers ever since he started doing in-person statements (MAG 13; statement of Namoi Herne on the events following the funeral of her fiancé Evan Lukas) since we know from MAG 100 that when Jon isn't at the institute the statements given are less coherent. I think that Melanie's statement (MAG 28) is a better example of him subtly using his influence as I feel like Melanie may not have given her statement otherwise due to her disdain for Jon at the start of the recording. Sure, she may have gone to the institute as a last resort when none of her colleagues believed her, but I'm surprised she stuck around after Jon made it clear he probably wasn't going to believe her either. So Eye magic probably would have helped with coaxing a statement out of her.